Just listened - I like the juxtaposition with old 70's white boys doing masculine things like fighting and playing football etc against the lyrics, which are simple, but powerful.
This made me think of her post series, “The Weapons Men Use.” It has helped my husband to identify what was problematic for him in terms of the parenting he received and the partnering he witnessed, and what he doesn’t want to repeat as my partner and the father of a son now.
Well said... I can relate to this so strongly... My dad would rage/spiral out about the most seemingly inane things... I think in out culture feelings are not spoken about enough, and so ti=hings often hit a boiling point...
It’s not just an immigrant thing watching my partner. He’s a very chill guy but his anger comes out when things are not done correctly or in a manner that doesn’t make sense. That comes from
his father. this value for quality and appropriate-ness. Could also be working class approach to do things right to gain merit and fight classism.
Yeah I agree it’s not an immigrant thing but rather connected to masculinity. But I think there’s more isolation for our fathers that might trigger that kind of response. And there are so many reasons why rage may get triggered and it depends on the person and their background. Like you mention your partner and his dad - why is that the response when things are out of place? It’s bc we have been socialized to think that’s a right way to do things.
your example of your dad's rage feels like an issue of class and feeling the need to be served properly. yours of frustrations with bureaucracy and perhaps also of wanting to be properly served ? did his rage transfer over in the home life, and does yours ? that's where rage and masculinity really suffers and oppresses.
I think rage is definitely connected to all of those things. But the point of the piece is to think through why rage is normalized, why is it ok to respond in that way to any perceived or real violation, whatever that may be? In general, it is more accepted for men to engage and problem solve in that way. But it shouldn’t be.
Yes and in desi culture it is expected esp for cis het men to act this way. Combine that with a culture obsessed with a bloated sense of masculinity, and the stigma of obtaining mental health services, and you have the perfect recipe for toxicity.
Thank you Vivek. Rage is hard to reckon with, harder still to write about. You’ve done it with compassion. You could have gotten away with being angry at fascist foot soldiers, yet your self awareness is admirable.
I saw the band IDLES play live in Barcelona last week. If you're not familiar with this song, it may resonate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si2pZRifgIo&ab_channel=IDLES
Just listened - I like the juxtaposition with old 70's white boys doing masculine things like fighting and playing football etc against the lyrics, which are simple, but powerful.
Nice I’ll check it out!
It’s meaningful as a woman to read a piece by a man interrogating this dynamic. Have you come across Zawn Villines’ work on this?
Thanks for reading! I have not but I will look them up. Any particular work by them that you recommend?
This made me think of her post series, “The Weapons Men Use.” It has helped my husband to identify what was problematic for him in terms of the parenting he received and the partnering he witnessed, and what he doesn’t want to repeat as my partner and the father of a son now.
https://zawn.substack.com/t/weapons-men-use
Well said... I can relate to this so strongly... My dad would rage/spiral out about the most seemingly inane things... I think in out culture feelings are not spoken about enough, and so ti=hings often hit a boiling point...
It’s not just an immigrant thing watching my partner. He’s a very chill guy but his anger comes out when things are not done correctly or in a manner that doesn’t make sense. That comes from
his father. this value for quality and appropriate-ness. Could also be working class approach to do things right to gain merit and fight classism.
Agreed. It’s an entitlement. But it’s learned behavior. But my mom usually got more rage than my dad. haha. so there’s that.
Yeah I agree it’s not an immigrant thing but rather connected to masculinity. But I think there’s more isolation for our fathers that might trigger that kind of response. And there are so many reasons why rage may get triggered and it depends on the person and their background. Like you mention your partner and his dad - why is that the response when things are out of place? It’s bc we have been socialized to think that’s a right way to do things.
your example of your dad's rage feels like an issue of class and feeling the need to be served properly. yours of frustrations with bureaucracy and perhaps also of wanting to be properly served ? did his rage transfer over in the home life, and does yours ? that's where rage and masculinity really suffers and oppresses.
I think rage is definitely connected to all of those things. But the point of the piece is to think through why rage is normalized, why is it ok to respond in that way to any perceived or real violation, whatever that may be? In general, it is more accepted for men to engage and problem solve in that way. But it shouldn’t be.
Yes and in desi culture it is expected esp for cis het men to act this way. Combine that with a culture obsessed with a bloated sense of masculinity, and the stigma of obtaining mental health services, and you have the perfect recipe for toxicity.
Thank you Vivek. Rage is hard to reckon with, harder still to write about. You’ve done it with compassion. You could have gotten away with being angry at fascist foot soldiers, yet your self awareness is admirable.
Thanks Raju for reading and commenting!